Over the last couple of years I've found myself in this interesting and yet sometimes frustrating dilema. It's not really a dilema, as if I'm paranoid or always thinking about it, more just as the case arises. So, here's my ponder and what I mean by the title.
For some years now it has been much more common for women in this day and age to be the first to be the initiators in a relationship. Or, in lay-mens terms, to ask a guy out on a date, as opposed to waiting for them to do the deed. I've often struggled with this, being a christian woman and really wanting to hold on to the old fashioned principles of the man taking the initiative. But, on the other hand what comes up in my head is this:
Does the guy think it's a date if you casually ask them to hang out when you're just getting to know them? and When is dating, dating, and when is it just a guy and a girl hanging out. Is it automatically considered a date when the guy pays, or if nothing has been said between them, is it just a nice gesture as a friend? I suppose it gets tricky though as well... because if the girl really is interested in the guy then she would hope it's a date, but if nothing is ever said then maybe it's just one of those unknown's and you find out later. I guess it's all in the getting to know you stages, and you have to just wait it out. Appreciate the gesture and not think much into it unless he says something more.
So, that brings me to another thing, if the girl tries to bring up, "so what is this"(if it hasn't been defined)... is that taking away the man's right to be the Chivalres guy he deserves to be? I don't know, maybe we as women have to be more patient and know that it's in God's perfect timing... but geez I've heard that line so many times... I believe it, but it's not something I love to sit and think on.
You see, I think that women my age have it harder these days because the lines are no where to be found anymore. Do guys expect the girl to do more initiating in the beginning now, or always... does that set a precedent then when you're in the relationship. I don't know, I don't have a huge opinion one way or the other, I just wonder what others think.
So, I know that it has to be really hard for men to go out on a limb and take a risk, so I really understand. But, somewhere I've got to believe there are still guys out there who want to do the Knight in Shining Armor thing... lately I think they've gotten easy with all the assertive women out there... Or maybe that's just outside the lines of christians? I don't know...
Well, this is coming from a girl who really hasn't had any official relationships, and really I've never had the chance to say yes or no... okay well once I dated the boy I went to prom with for two weeks, but he doesn't count, we were both caught up in the moment. So, this is why my wonderings are so non-concrete, if that makes sense.
This has been rolling around in my head for so long(and I think of it in such randome times), I just decided to blog it and leave it here. If I hear nothing, then owell. :) Atleast I've pounded it out of my head now and forget about it:).
bye for now...
4 comments:
Lisa,
There's a lot here to respond to. One, you said, "I should stop over-thinking it", and then continued on for 4 more paragraphs.
It was good advice. Listen to it.
Here's the deal. You are only overthinking it because boys don't think.
I had a conversation with a bunch of girls about how we handle the same random thought. The thought: Hmmm... What if I shaved my head?
Guys - Would right there and then think it over, weigh the pros and cons and go, No. prolly not gonna shave the head.
Girls - Would think about shaving the head, or recognize the desire, and then think about the scenarios that they would be ok or not ok with shaving their head. For example, she would shave her head to support a friend with cancer, but not for fashion purposes.
All of this to say, boys are VERY straight-forward. If they aren't, ask them about WHATEVER you are wondering and they will be. If they can't be, they are a waste of time.
TWO, Chivalry and Old Fashioned don't exist. Read, "The Way We Never Were" for a book that examines how our views of past culture are completely tainted.
THREE, you should not try to figure out how the magic boy meets girl moment occurs. It's not a science. You don't need to figure out how to act or think or BE until you are there, and once you are there, just BEing is what you will do. You need to figure out what you want and go after it.
Relying on someone else to fulfill your needs (especially relationally) shows passivity and a general unsuredness about what you want. If you want something, go for it. Say, "Hey, you are cool. Let's do something."
And keep it light.
BUT BUT BUT if he pays, it's a date. That one's an absolute.
So, recap.
Do your own thing.
Know what you want.
If he pays, it's a date.
Hey Matt,
Good insights. I get what you're saying when you say Guy's don't think, and I was just going on about it and throwing out different scenarios just to see what others would say. It really wasn't a plea for help about a certain situation. But more just things I've always wondered, no matter if there happened to be someone on the horizon or not.
I know that the fantacy(sp?) of a Knight in Shining Armor isn't a reality and that there really is no magic moment that is so hyped up on tv etc. I definitely agree that just "Be"ing is the thing to do... I'm learning to do that and it's really good. I've also learned to do that, "hey you're cool, let's hang-out."
And yes, always keep it light... A long while back I learned that one, and knew it right after I brought whatever it was up.
Thanks for your insights, they were great! I respect your opinion, especially since reading your blogs. Your thought process intrigues me, I can see that most of the responses you give aren't that initial irrational opinion etc.
Great question. Ditto to what Matt said. I'm not sure if there is much else to add, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway.
You mention that because you are a Christian woman you are holding on to the old fashioned pricipals of waiting to be asked out. Where in the Bible does it say women should not ask out guys? I agree that the guy should have the guts to do the asking, and maybe that is something you think it worth holding out for, but there are a lot of great guys out there who won't ask.
I have no true definition of a date, I doubt anyone does, but below are a few points where if you hit more than a couple I would say you qualify:
1) One on one outing
2) You are trying to tell yourself it isn't a date (odds are you are know better)
3) Any kind of small gift prior to or during date (or is almost too willing to lend, give you stuff)
4) You hang out fairly regularly (once a week or so). Most guys don't see their guy friends that much, if you are getting that kind of time you know something is up.
5) He pays
Bottom line:
If you have given a guy time to act and he hasn't, ask him if you are still interested.
Time + Money + Gut Instinct = It was a date (aprox. formula)
David-
No it doesn't say verbatim that a girl shouldn't ask a guy out on a date. But there are references to how the man should be the head of the "household,"and of course that line that freaks all the independent women out... "wives submit to your husbands"
I'm still trying to figure that whole thing out. I was listening to a fragment of KTIS yesturday and some guy was talking on Dr. Dobson's show... all about that verse and how it reads on etc. and this guy went on to say things like women shouldn't be elders and in authority at churches, etc. It made me convulse and get real perturbed... I think that all this has to do with balance (this could almost be a blog in itself)...
So... to stay on the dating topic, that's why I think it's cool for the girl to say "hey, let's hang out" or whatever in the beginning stages... but if there's something more, then the guy should do the talking if he knows that's what he wants. And in turn, if for the girl it is just too hard for her to wait and not know, then I think it's alright for her to get her bearings and throw out a defining question. That's my answer to my question :).
So, there you have it... I'm done thinking about this topic... as you'll see by my last blog.
good night...
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